Are there problems Chinese Aluminum Composite Panels?

The group got heated with many people expressing opinions and others pitching products.   To join in the conversation, see our post on LinkedIn. 

Here’s the discussion as of Oct 22, 2013.

Carrie Jeske asked, “Are problems with Chinese Aluminum Composite Panels? 

I’m trying to read an article that comes up in Google stating, “This issue to the exterior wall aluminum composite panel (GB Engineering board)”. Is the aluminum-composite-panel.org a legitimate resource for information?

Paul Grime President at Panel Resource Group, Inc. replied:

The key thing you need to use to determine if an ACM/ACP company, Chinese or otherwise, is to make sure that they have done all the testing required for the location you will be using the materials. Many claim that they meet or have certain products that compete with the market leaders, but when you ask for test results you get their testing not an independent certified test. The industry as a whole needs to develop a specification that all manufactures should comply to that lists Al. grade and temper, peel strength, coating standards, core material standards and panel performance standards such as flexural strength and wind loading.

I have been in the industry for over 30 yrs. and have only seen product brand listings in the specifications and this does not really cover the true aspects of the product performance. The architects need to start writing performance specifications vs. brand specifications if they want to get the best quality and performing products for their projects. Unlike

Carrie Jeske JEI Structural Engineering – Glazing Design Calcs said:

Paul, these are great comments. Thank you.

We’ve been talking a lot internally about how to help educate architects so things run more smoothly in the field with a higher quality outcome. It’s just a matter of time and persistence. Delete

Subrat Das Vice President ( Sales & Marketing) at ALEX PANELS India Pvt Ltd

I completely endorse this requirements.

Grason Cook National Sales Manager

ICC AC-25 is a battery of tests for ACM that has been recommended by the industry. Per the comments above, I would not recommend using any panel that hasn’t had these qualities verified by an independent testing facility. Also, ask yourself “If there is an issue with my panel how easy would it be to issue a claim with the manufacturer and would I be able to take legal action if it got to that point?” I see companies from all over trying to sell into the US market, but thankfully the ACM fabricators (most of them) have been responsible enough not to use a product that does not meet this criteria. Is it really worth saving $.10/sqft on a $45/sqft installation to have all of this additional liability?

Also, it is getting harder to track Chinese panels as companies are brokering their products thru other countries to try and confuse the end user.

Peter Williams MD, Owner at Credence Associated Consultants (Thailand) Co Ltd. / Seeking Employment.

Grason, You got that absolutely right, even down to buying Extruded anodizing quality mill finish aluminum profiles from China at these low “Competitive prices” the anodizing color comes out in different shades, – Widows , frames , doors , all look like chess boards, there’s a high scrapage if you try and match the color shades per unit, Alloy compositions swing so much from batch to batch coming out of China, and billet log homogenizing times and temp’s vary so much.

The rigmarole of putting a claim in for NC metal is just unbelievable, Competitive price = False economy

Peter Williams MD, Owner at Credence Associated Consultants (Thailand) Co Ltd. / Seeking Employment.

Grason, You got that absolutely right, even down to buying Extruded anodizing quality mill finish aluminum profiles from China at these low “Competitive prices” the anodizing colour comes out in different shades, – Widows , frames , doors , all look like chess boards, there’s a high scrapage if you try and match the colour shades per unit, Alloy compositions swing so much from batch to batch coming out of China, and billet log homogenizing times and temp’s vary so much.

The rigmarole of putting a claim in for NC metal is just unbelievable, Competitive price = False economy

Sunil. Laxman. Ahire Plant Manager at Qatar National Aluminum Panel Co. (Q-NAP)

All said and accepted. It still remains a Chinese dominated territory, and I feel that right quality can be procured / tailored at china with a proper knowledge and pursuance.

Anderson Shi export manager at Jiangsu New Mster Technology Co., Ltd

Dear sirs, We have full certificate for our A2 grade aluminum composite panel, welcome to visit our factory for testing our panels

Peter Williams MD, Owner at Credence Associated Consultants (Thailand) Co Ltd. / Seeking Employment.

Not many project managers would agree with that sentiment, an installation schedule after all does not consider pursuance of quality , it should be in place and UP FRONT.

VIJAY KUMAR TALASHI GENERAL MANAGER – PROJECTS at EUROBOND INDUSTRIES PVT. LTD.

We have to be honest with ourselves regarding manufacturing practices, this applies to purchaser too and followed by end users.Now i want a price tag as purchaser and seller gives it after compromising on quality of product without intimating . we have to seek proper and candid interaction at apex level to sort out these kinks.

ASHOK KUMAR SURYAWANSHI AGM at Aludecor Lamination Pvt. Ltd.

ASHOK KUMAR SURYAWANSHI  AGM R&D  ALUDECOR LAMINATION PVT LTD  Top most brand of A2 grade aluminum composite panel manufacture in india .also coated aluminum coil manufacture,

ASHOK KUMAR SURYAWANSHI AGM at Aludecor Lamination Pvt. Ltd.

all solution of acp problem coming while process and other then process contact me

Peter Williams  MD, Owner at Credence Associated Consultants (Thailand) Co Ltd. / Seeking Employment.

This has gone off track .

Paul Grime President at Panel Resource Group, Inc.

Couldn’t agree more with you Peter. This needs to focus on the problems Globally with sub-standard products getting into the market and setting International standards that all manufacturers must abide by. There is a reason that many of the companies offer a CHEEPER product. They do not use quality materials when producing it or follow any standards.

James Lee Area Manager at Guangdong Gaoli Aluminum Industry Co.,Ltd.

Hi,plz contact with me. We have sent samples to USA, UK, Singapore and Australia for test. Now we are suppliers of ACM for DUBAI METRO STATION, New Doha International Airport, and so on. Hope we can cooperate with each other.

Grason Cook National Sales Manager

Why I dislike joining any boards on LinkedIn? Because it becomes a sales pitch by people from I don’t know where versus a conversation… Testing in the US for a product like this will set you back over $100k plus annual inspection costs. It did ours. I don’t think many companies would make that investment for a supplier of theirs. It must be done by the supplier/manufacturer so the idea of sending samples for testing makes little sense in the US market.

Carrie Jeske JEI Structural Engineering – Glazing Design Calcs

I hear you Grason. The public domain is a two edge sword. I think there was some valuable info in this thread and individuals don’t have any moderation tools so we have to pick the plums where we can. Thanks for your insights. Our world is getting smaller and smaller and I think social networks can help us all make better purchasing decisions. Poor quality can no longer hide in the local newspaper.

Stay strong…

Peter Williams MD, Owner at Credence Associated Consultants (Thailand) Co Ltd. / Seeking Employment.

It’s all about levels of understanding, even these sales guys don’t know enough about their product to carry an argument on quality, as a said earlier, ” this board has gone way off track ”

Hessam Moosavi Managing director at Estaque Modern Constructions Co.

Dear friends,  Generally speaking, Chinese acm/acp use cheap raw materials. You better know composite production price depends more on the material than human resources. The raw material including aluminum, PE and glue are used in the same amounts in acm production. So the difference in price is because of difference in quality and producer factory of the raw material. It is obvious that an alloy 5005 has not the same price as alloy 3103. And a BASF bonding roll has not the same quality as zing bla bla co. So in general Chinese productions which use local produced raw material have lower quality.

For exterior facades, as UV and acid rains and temperature change affect the façade, acp quality matters. For testing acps you need a well equipped laboratory which is not accessible in many countries. So you have to use test results of the countries with the same climate and natural conditions.

For Example

For UAE you can use Astm codes which are used in Nevada state. Now when you get a new brand acp from china, India, uae or other same countries and you want to use it in a 5000 sqm project. It does not make sence to send it to lab because of the time and price. Another thing affects the price of acp and that is transportation and taxes. I think it is better to use acm/acps which are priduced in china under license of a known company. Let’s say Alucobond, Reynobond or Alpolic. They have better quality which is certified from a European or American lab and the producer has good history in this industry.

Some of Chinese companies use fake characteristics for their product like nano painted, super Nano painted, super super nano pvdf and things like that.  All at all, I think for buildings with high importance like airports, hospitals and etc it is better to use an Europe/American made acp and for the others it depends on the economic prospects and conditions.

Peter Williams MD, Owner at Credence Associated Consultants (Thailand) Co Ltd. / Seeking Employment.

I concur 100% with Hessam, Especially when you know you have companies like Mitsubishi right there behind certain acp brands, it installs confidence in the end result,

For more comments on this topic, connect with me on LinkedIn.

Carrie Jeske

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